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question on the BBC turntables : opinions !

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Re: question on the BBC turntables : opinions !

Postby Arpangel » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:03 am

CeruttiA wrote:
Arpangel wrote:Don’t panic, I would just look inside, and see where the wires go straight from the arm, tap off those, or reroute them to a pair of phono plugs and drill them into the rear of the case as a "domestic" output, just like a "normal" turntable. That has to be possible if you don’t want to use the extra bells and whistles.
Or just figure out what the signal wires are on the Hypertac connector and take a balanced output from there, whatever, it’s all definitely possible. Plus there’s loads of phono preamps about that offer balanced outputs too, if that’s what’s needed.
These are definitely a bit "boingy" in the spring department, but as Hugh says, not a problem in your living room.
You mention the LS5/8, but what amplifier are you using?

Hello and thanks for the reassurance (which one needs at 2.200 UKP ! ) . As you might know the rogers Ls 5/8 come with the Quads 405 (bi amplified) , this is the standard BBC modification.

£2,200 is a substantial amount to pay for a turntable, this BBC job looks great, and you have to bare that in mind, but, for that type,of money you could have got something amazing from say, Project, or Michell, that would be at least as good, but probably a lot better than this.
I hope this works out for you, I’d be tempted for sure, I have a KEF Quad 405 powered system, and I’m looking for a turntable, an EMT would be great, but I’m not holding out any hope, I’ll probably end up with a Project, or a Michell.
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Re: question on the BBC turntables : opinions !

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:20 am

Arpangel wrote:£2,200 is a substantial amount to pay for a turntable...

The going rate on the s/h market for the technics SP10 mk2 is about £1500 -- there's quite a vintage following for them. Added to which, this unit includes an RIAA preamp and all the other bells and whistles we've already discussed... and it's a bone fide BBC-developed Disc Reproducer which is relatively rare and sought-after thing in some circles. So £2.2k is not actually that bonkers.

I paid nearly £6k for my own 'special' turntable, and there are plenty of sophisticated high-end designs costing way more than that! Of course, none of it is justifiable on pure 'sense' grounds, and there are perfectly capable turntables around for well under £1K...

....for that type,of money you could have got something amazing from say, Project, or Michell, that would be at least as good, but probably a lot better than this.

Absolutely -- if extracting the most from treasured vinyl is the aim, there are far better ways than an RP2/10 -- as I pointed out right at the start of this thread.

What I find more disturbing is the idea of buying something without any real understanding of what is actually being purchased or how it can be used/integrated ... But each to their own...

I have a KEF Quad 405 powered system...

Just FYI, the LS5/8 is a BBC-designed two-way, active speaker originally powered by a modified Quad 405 amplifier which was known within the BBC as an AM8/16.

The modifications entailed a transformer-balanced input with different input connectors (Postie jack and a male XLR3 in parallel) and a rotary sensitivity control, a different output connector (female XLR5), an XLR-LNE mains input connector, and the installation of a line-level active crossover board so that one channel powered the woofer, and the other the tweeter.
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Re: question on the BBC turntables : opinions !

Postby CeruttiA » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:49 pm

You are right, Hugh, it was a mistake to purchase it - decision when bidding, which is not always rational.

There is a similar turntable on the bay:
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/303759475475?ul_noapp=true

and this is how the back looks like, so hopefully it will be ok:

Image

Image
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Re: question on the BBC turntables : opinions !

Postby CeruttiA » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:54 pm

Arpangel wrote:
CeruttiA wrote:
Arpangel wrote:Don’t panic, I would just look inside, and see where the wires go straight from the arm, tap off those, or reroute them to a pair of phono plugs and drill them into the rear of the case as a "domestic" output, just like a "normal" turntable. That has to be possible if you don’t want to use the extra bells and whistles.
Or just figure out what the signal wires are on the Hypertac connector and take a balanced output from there, whatever, it’s all definitely possible. Plus there’s loads of phono preamps about that offer balanced outputs too, if that’s what’s needed.
These are definitely a bit "boingy" in the spring department, but as Hugh says, not a problem in your living room.
You mention the LS5/8, but what amplifier are you using?

Hello and thanks for the reassurance (which one needs at 2.200 UKP ! ) . As you might know the rogers Ls 5/8 come with the Quads 405 (bi amplified) , this is the standard BBC modification.

£2,200 is a substantial amount to pay for a turntable, this BBC job looks great, and you have to bare that in mind, but, for that type,of money you could have got something amazing from say, Project, or Michell, that would be at least as good, but probably a lot better than this.
I hope this works out for you, I’d be tempted for sure, I have a KEF Quad 405 powered system, and I’m looking for a turntable, an EMT would be great, but I’m not holding out any hope, I’ll probably end up with a Project, or a Michell.

For those 'tempted' I definitely will consider selling it. Let me have the final bill and I can calculate my sales price. It was the best working turntable from the lot of 5, I was assured if it and there is a note attached that says so, inside the turntable.
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Re: question on the BBC turntables : opinions !

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:12 pm

CeruttiA wrote:You are right, Hugh, it was a mistake to purchase it - decision when bidding, which is not always rational.

The dangers of auction bidding! I know it well... :lol:

...and this is how the back looks like, so hopefully it will be ok:

Ah yes -- that's it. So the Hypertac connectors are the two large blue ones labelled 'F Radio' and 'G Television' -- there are two either because the radio and TV sides of the BBC developed their own slightly different wiring conventions (!), or one is an input for the bussing option I mentioned earlier -- not sure!

The critical part for you is whether or not your purchased machine includes the break-out cable with a Hypertac connector terminated in two male XLR3s as shown in that example (plugged into the Radio connector).

It's certainly not a standard part of the RP2/10 device, so it depends where your particular unit came from and what the wiring arrangements were for it before it was ripped out for auction.

If it's not present on your machine you'll have to make one, and that will require either finding the schematics to wire to the correct pins, or taking the amplifier chassis apart to figure out the wiring from inside.

The alternative would be to simply pick up the direct cartridge connections from the arm at the top, bypass all the BBC electronics, and connect to s an external RIAA preamp. But if you're going to do that you might just as well have bought a standard SP10 instead and saved yourself a grand!
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Re: question on the BBC turntables : opinions !

Postby CeruttiA » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:16 pm

"Hypertac connector terminated in two male XLR3s as shown in that example"


Thank you very much , Hugh !

Perhaps thois Hypertax to XLR converter can be bought from ebay or an engineer maverick : let me know if you see them !
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Re: question on the BBC turntables : opinions !

Postby Arpangel » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:20 pm

That looks a piece of cake to sort out, those phono plugs at top left, look like they come straight out of the arm.
You’ll need a preamp though, and it’ll defeat the whole object of buying this anyway, but I’d persevere, you may be able to tap off a balanced feed somewhere?
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Re: question on the BBC turntables : opinions !

Postby Arpangel » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:26 pm

[quote="Hugh Robjohns"]
Just FYI, the LS5/8 is a BBC-designed two-way, active speaker originally powered by a modified Quad 405 amplifier which was known within the BBC as an AM8/16. /quote]

Ah yes, the old AM8 forward slash 16 monitoring for the use of.... :)
Reminds me of my Plessey/GPO days "pliers wiring No2" or 81’s as we used to call them, they had a number for everything.

:D
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Re: question on the BBC turntables : opinions !

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:27 pm

Extraordinarily specialist niche product! I'd be stunned and amazed if you found one 'off the shelf'.

But it wouldn't be difficult to make -- or have made -- provided you can provide the appropriate pin wiring details... and therein lies the rub!

I'll have another rummage around the BBC Archive site and see if I can find anything to help...

And... I've found the wiring for the RP2/6 which is probably the same or similar. It might help, anyway...

For the RP2/6 the primary audio output left channel is on pins A4 (+) and A5 (-) with the screen on C4, and the right channel is on B4 (+), B5 (-) and D4 (Screen)
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Re: question on the BBC turntables : opinions !

Postby CeruttiA » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:30 pm

Thanks very much, Hugh and everyone
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EMT 938

Postby CeruttiA » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:30 am

You have been all rather critical of the BBC turntable. Is the EMT 938 better from the sound point of view and from the engineering point of view (solid build / simplicity / reliability )

I may have the possibility to exchange the BBC one against the EMT , hence the question.
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Re: question on the BBC turntables : opinions !

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:45 pm

I think you might find the EMT more conventional and easier to integrate. And personally, I preferred it in use too.
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Re: question on the BBC turntables : opinions !

Postby Trevor Johnson » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:23 pm

You will probably have already found it, but this website is an excellent source of info about EMT turntables.

https://www.fabtech.de/en_index.html

You asked about sound quality and it strikes me that unless you are setting up your own retro-radio station, there are probably better ways of spending £2k on a vintage turntable. I would go for a Garrard 401 or Thorens 125, which with a decent arm and modern cartridge won't leave you with much, or any, change.

But that may not be possible, yet, as the EMT would be a swap, not money back?
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Re: question on the BBC turntables : opinions !

Postby James Perrett » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:59 pm

There's a parallel thread going on at

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/sho ... p?t=173274

where Ted Kendall mentions that the SP10 was sometimes described as "a Garrard that works". I can quite understand why - fast start is not the 401's forte. I was lucky enough to pick up a couple of 401's when they were unfashionable and have been using them for nearly 40 years.
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Re: question on the BBC turntables : opinions !

Postby CeruttiA » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:20 pm

Trevor Johnson wrote:You will probably have already found it, but this website is an excellent source of info about EMT turntables.

https://www.fabtech.de/en_index.html

You asked about sound quality and it strikes me that unless you are setting up your own retro-radio station, there are probably better ways of spending £2k on a vintage turntable. I would go for a Garrard 401 or Thorens 125, which with a decent arm and modern cartridge won't leave you with much, or any, change.

But that may not be possible, yet, as the EMT would be a swap, not money back?

thank you very much !
Interesting, I thought the EMT was the queen of broadcast TT
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